


No Bones About It

by Crystallized_Rose_Rebel



Category: Undertale (Video Game)
Genre: Alternate Character Interpretation, Analysis, Big Brother Sans, Chara Protection Squad, Character Analysis, Cinnamon Roll Papyrus, Cinnamon Roll Sans, Essays, Gen, Meta, Narrator Chara, No Royal Judge, Papyrus Is Not Stupid, Parallels, Post-Undertale Neutral Route - King Papyrus Ending, Rated for Author's Language, Sans Doesn't Remember Resets, Sans Is Not The Royal Judge, Trans Mettaton, fan theory critical, fanbase critical
Language: English
Status: In-Progress
Published: 2018-06-27
Updated: 2018-06-30
Packaged: 2019-05-25 10:50:23
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings
Chapters: 2
Words: 6,489
Publisher: archiveofourown.org
Story URL: https://archiveofourown.org/works/14975606
Author URL: https://archiveofourown.org/users/Crystallized_Rose_Rebel/pseuds/Crystallized_Rose_Rebel
Summary: A collection of meta for Undertale with a particular focus on the skeleton brothers (at least for now).  Unpopular thoughts and opinions are shared.  Especially regarding the identity of Dr. Gaster, who I have concluded isn't Mystery Man. He's just Sans, who is not particularly special. Rather overexposed, overhyped, and overrated actually (both as Sans and as Dr. Gaster). Beware of salt and snark!The first chapter is a table of contents and something of an introduction.





	1. Introduction & Table of Contents

**Summary for the Chapter:**

> An extensive introduction to my Undertale meta, both for the old and for what I'm planning now. And a table of contents

 

 

 

 

> "Hello. Have some respect and don't spoil the game. It's impossible to have mysteries nowadays, because of nosy people like you. Please keep all of this between us. If you post it online, I won't make any more secrets. No one will be impressed. It will be your fault!"
> 
> `abc_123_a.ogg (before January '16 update)  
>  `

 

 

### Table Of Contents

Note: unlike with my Steven Universe meta, most of my Undertale meta was posted on AO3 originally and never quite made it to Tumblr. I will add a Tumblr link whenever it's needed. 

Links will be added to the Table of Contents as chapters are posted.

 

#1 - **Introduction**  
Common misconceptions, questions, and complaints regarding my main theory and meta for Undertale. Will possibly be expanded later.

  * You're Only Saying Sans is Gaster because He's Your Favorite!
  * Why Does Your Meta for Undertale Focus so much on Sans and Papyrus Then?
  * You're Too Negative! Isn't There  _Anything_  You Like About Your Theory?
  * What Standards Do You Have For Proof and Evidence? Why?
  * Gaster Brothers?



#2 - **[Papyrus Doesn't Play Dumb (Nor Is He Stupid)](https://archiveofourown.org/works/14975606/chapters/34729820) - **~~[tumblr link] **  
**~~ The popular taken-for-canon “Fool or Phony” Papyrus interpretation presents only two possible explanations for apparent inconsistencies with Papyrus’ character: either Papyrus chooses to play dumb around his brother and friends for no clear reason, or he’s dumb as bricks. Both options are unconscionable and ultimately contradict what is presented in the canon. 

 

 

###  Introduction

#### Common misconceptions, questions, and complaints.

**You're Only Saying Sans is Gaster because He's Your Favorite!**

 **Stop right there.** Think before you say something like this. First of all,  Sans is NOT my favorite Undertale character. Mystery Man Gaster (also referred to as MM!Gaster in my meta) _used_ to be my favorite. It only lasted for a month or two. Some arguments in the fandom between Dadster believers and Sanster shippers made me realize just how little basis the fandom has for the majority of their Gaster theories and headcanons. The more I got to thinking of it, and the deeper I looked into things, the more I realized the whole Gaster thing isn't a good mystery or a good story. It just _isn't_.

This naturally killed much of my enthusiasm for the character. Papyrus took his place as my favorite character for a time, until a certain subgroup of his fanbase made it hard to like him as much. Edit: this is apparently the point where Sans became my favorite, because I did feel like the theory that he's Gaster "fixed" some of my complaints about his character, but it didn't last long. In fact I outright _forgot_ about it until I looked at my old posts on tumblr and found out I once listed him as my fave.  He was quickly usurped by Mettaton, who has remained my fave ever since.  I'm also a huge fan of the Dreemurr family, Undyne, and Chara. Sans has ~~_never_~~ been my favorite character in the game. While I do like him and enjoy a lot of the fan works that feature him, there's pretty much always been characters that I find myself enjoying more.

Secondly, my goal was to find an answer to the mystery of Dr. Gaster that worked  _with_  the narrative rather than separately or against it. Not to give him an identity. My conclusions that Gaster is now a certain weird and goofy sentry in Snowdin was merely an unexpected byproduct, and not necessarily a happy one, since reaching this conclusion still meant realizing my original favorite Undertale character:

  1. really doesn't exist.
  2. is a fanon-only creation of the _worst_ creepypasta-esque fan theory ever (of all time)
  3. is actually nothing more than the most overexposed  _canonical_ Undertale character's backstory. Once again, I _do_ like Sans and understand why he's popular, but one cannot deny that he is overexposed, arguably overrated and overhyped even.



It also made for the loneliest fandom experience I've ever had. I didn't make many friends in the fandom's heyday, not until I stopped trying to discuss my opinions on Tumblr and started posting here on AO3 instead. What little interaction I did have with the other fans gradually wore down my self-esteem until I reached the point where I changed my username to Meta **wasteoftime**. The name wasn't supposed to stick, yet here we are. Bottom line, the creation of my Sans is Gaster theory was not happy fun times. I'm not as bitter as I used to be, but I am still a little salty over it all. 

Unfortunately, I can understand why people would assume I created the theory out of bias. It's yet another reason why I tend to be such an angry and salty UT fan at times. Undertale fans have a really bad habit of transplanting traits and story arcs from one character to either Sans, Papyrus, or MM!Gaster, and sometimes take traits from one skeleton to give them to his brother. Sans' fans are infamous for this, due to his explosive popularity.

There's also an entire community of Papyrus fans on Tumblr who love to transplant other characters' strengths (or just popular _fanon_ traits, in Sans' case) to Papyrus so they become stupid and useless compared to him and to re-interpret Papyrus as being secretly an angsty lying manipulative genius demigod or whatever (yet has been theorized by some to be secretly  _paying_ Sans to sing his praises to the human so it doesn't sound like this version of Papyrus is really as great as his supporters claim, because that's just pathetic) and treats his brother and best friend/mentor like trash. To say I'm not a fan of this take would be a gross understatement. This take on Papyrus is closely related to the fringe UT theory that _Papyrus_ is Gaster, so I've always worried about people assuming that I have similar ideas about Sans being the "superior skeleton who toys with his pathetic idiot brother and lies to him all the time to control him."

Nothing could be farther from the truth. Papyrus is one of the strongest, brightest, kindest and most talented monsters in the underground. Sans (that is to say, Gaster) _idolizes_ him and considers Papyrus a better person than him, even if he does tease him like brothers are wont to do.

[return to Table of Contents] 

 

**Why Does Your Meta for Undertale Focus so much on Sans and Papyrus Then?**

Because they are the most popular characters in the game by a _very_ large margin, though other characters are now getting more love than they used to, and I mostly wrote Undertale meta out of _annoyance_ with the majority of theories and character interpretations involving Gaster and the skeletons. This is the main reason why I've written so much more meta for Steven Universe, which is a fandom where I love the majority of the cast with the exception of Sadie, who I've honestly been liking less as the show progresses (and even then I'm just as inclined to write something in  _defense_  of her character as I am to write a meta detailing all the reasons why I'm not a fan of her). It's also fairly easy for me to avoid the portions of the SU fandom I dislike the most, which is sadly more than I can say for Undertale. Due to these factors, what I write for Steven Universe is generally more positive and less argumentative than my Undertale meta tends to be, so it's a lot more fun and rewarding overall to me.

Of course, the other reason I've written more for SU is that Undertale, for all intents and purposes, is a complete work. Until a sequel comes out, the game is pretty much all we've got. Steven Universe is a long-running series and is still in production at this moment, so I will have new things to say about it for hopefully a very long time, but when I was writing meta for Undertale, it felt like the amount of things I could talk about that hadn't already been better said by someone else was limited.

[return to Table of Contents] 

 

**You're Too Negative! Isn't There _Anything_ You Like About Your Theory?**

Yes, actually! Though it wasn't until some time after its creation that I realized there _was_ something to like about it besides it being, from my perspective, easier to argue for than more conventional Gaster theories. To me, the theory succeeds in  _humanizing_  Gaster in a way I honestly don't see a lot of other theories regarding his character pull off, presenting him as an extremely flawed and tragic character that tragedy and time has gradually beaten down into a tired and weak shadow of his former self rather than a nigh flawless hyper-intelligent science superhero/villain who somehow either split himself into two people or was erased by time by falling into a geothermal plant. 

As for how it affects Sans' character, it fleshes him out a little more so some aspects of his character that previously seemed contradictory or just needlessly vague now make more sense without resorting to attributing additional powers to him.  Being the same person as Gaster would also mean his character arc and role in the game heavily parallels that of Flowey and Chara, who incidentally both are from a different time from the other monsters around them, take on the appearance of something associated with death, introduce themselves in the same manner as Sans, act as judges at some point in the game, and hint at them having a "true name." I should probably note that there is also a line that comes up when the player edits the game file to change their name which is theorized to be Sans speaking in regular text, due to speech patterns, that seems to heavily imply, in context, that _Sans might not be his real name_.  In addition, like Asriel and Chara, Sans is arguably another character the player encounters throughout the game, but can never truly save. It creates a subtle case of the rule of three, something I personally find very satisfying in a story.

But, yes, I agree that my Undertale meta has been overly negative in the past. I would like to avoid this in the future. I'm still going to post my original meta, but if I'm going to write new meta for Undertale, I want them to keep a calmer and more positive tone this time around. Except when the time comes to write my rant about That One Papyrus Interpretation and why I hate it, of course.

[return to Table of Contents] 

**What Standards Do You Have For Proof and Evidence? Why?**

Before my theory that Sans is Gaster was even in development, I was inspired by the Narrator Chara theory to place certain rules for myself in regards to seeking evidence that supports Undertale theories. As such, only details evident in the game story proper or backed substantially by the events of the game were taken into serious consideration. Not every detail that's widely theorized to be related to Dr. Gaster is accepted. If something can be given a simpler explanation without involving the mystery of Gaster (or can only be tied to Gaster if the game's story and world-building is discarded), I don't count it as good evidence.

That is not to say that the files and programming don't contain some interesting things that  _could_  be taken as evidence, only that they tend to be overly vague and thus can be interpreted in countless ways. Especially when it's hard, sometimes even impossible, to figure out the context of the line. It's also difficult to discern which bits can be considered canon and which are "junk data." An example of this would be the script for Sans' Lost SOULs sequence wherein the flavor text describes the skeleton as "nodding solemnly."

Originally I thought these lines were cut from the game as with the punchlines to Sans' mockery whenever Frisk dies attempting to beat him. In reality, the lines _are_  in the game, but are only seen if Sans' SOUL is SAVED using a specific sequence.

The player has to use an ACT on Papyrus once and two ACTs on Sans, then use either the Judgement ACT, shown above, or the Break ACT. Sans' response to the Crossword ACT following the same order to get the "nods solemnly" narration is to nod "like he knew it without question." Sans is also the only lost SOUL described as  _trying_  to remember before the final ACT, implying awareness that his mind had been tampered with and something is wrong. Given this context, the term probably refers to the definition of "solemn" as being "a belief and certainty in the validity of one's opinion." 

Before I knew what triggers the text, I had some theories on what it could mean as "solemnly" is the only other time Sans is described by the narrator outside of "starting to look really tired" and "looks happy." Naturally, they were all wrong, because I didn't have the proper context for the lines. This sort of thing is why I avoid using things that can only be found in the game files and lack context for theories, especially when it comes to the Gaster brothers, who already have a lot of theories and speculation surrounding them.

[return to Table of Contents] 

 

 **Gaster Brothers?** _**  
** _

Yes, "Gaster brothers" is what I will be calling the skeletons here, since saying Dr. Gaster and the skeleton brothers is redundant and does little to dissuade the idea that "if Gaster is the same person as one or both of the skeleton brothers, it must be in the sense that Dr. Gaster became a whole new person and ceased to exist as himself" à la  _Steven Universe_. No, when I say Sans and Dr. Gaster is the same person, I mean the former Royal Scientist literally works as a lowly sentry in Snowdin and calls himself Sans. And likes cheesy jokes and childish toilet humor.

And this is the point where I warn you that  **Gaster worship and Sans worship is NOT welcome here**.  Dr. Gaster seems to have been best remembered for his  _failures_  and disappearance rather than his feats, and his entire role in the game as Sans is that of a tragic hero doomed to always fail no matter how hard he tries. He's not some kind of ascended science wizard-god thing and he never was.

[return to Table of Contents] 

**Notes for the Chapter:**

> While I have already posted meta for Undertale, I am planning on moving EVERYTHING here, and **deleting all my previously posted Undertale meta**  (including the Bare Bones series). Comments from the original posts are also currently being backed up, but only for personal reference at the moment. While this change will probably be an inconvenience to readers at first, it will hopefully make things immensely easier for me as the writer and encourage me to write meta for the game again.  


	2. Papyrus Doesn’t Play Dumb (nor is he stupid)

**Summary for the Chapter:**

> The popular taken-for-canon “Fool or Phony” Papyrus interpretation presents only two possible explanations for apparent inconsistencies with Papyrus’ character: either Papyrus chooses to play dumb around his brother and friends for no clear reason, or he’s dumb as bricks. Both options are unconscionable and ultimately contradict what is presented in the canon.

I know I should be working on one of my other multiple meta & theory projects, but this is something that has been bothering me for a long time: the popular assumption that Papyrus pretends to seem naive and stupid around Sans because….who knows, but usually the explanation boils down to him being a condescending jerk.

My dash was flooded with this nonsense the other day and my fuse pretty much broke a few times. I had to delete a few posts after blowing up at some people on the subject. But then I realized I should probably explain my point-of-view in a stand-alone post, in detail.

First things first, the basic premise of my argument:

**The popular taken-for-canon “Fool or Phony” Papyrus interpretation presents only two possible explanations for apparent inconsistencies with Papyrus’ character: either Papyrus chooses to play dumb around his brother and friends for no clear reason, or he’s dumb as bricks. Both options are unconscionable and ultimately contradict what is presented in the canon.**

This post won’t be covering every scene with Papyrus that relates to this idea that Papyrus must be either Fool or Phony, but I think I selected the moments in the game most frequently brought up when the idea is discussed. So be warned that this is nearly 4000 words long and contains 43 images.  My apologies to my followers on mobile. 

This isn’t going to be a rant on why this idea makes me cranky.  This is just going to be a counter-argument. Where I occasionally refer to Liar!Papyrus in colorful language, because I’m only human and I really **_really_** hate this character interpretation.

## “that’s for baby bones”

Whenever someone talks about how Papyrus pretends to be naive or stupid around Sans, the Crosswords room is always the first thing that pops into mind.

Sans is _taken aback_ by Papyrus saying he finds Junior Jumble harder than crosswords.  He also tells Papyrus that the Junior Jumble puzzle is “easy-peasy” and for baby bones.  Neither statements suggest that Sans sees Papyrus as being stupid or that his brother’s nonexistent nose is ten feet long around him.  Otherwise Sans’ dialogue **would not** be worded this way.

Papyrus doesn’t say anything in his phone call to suggest his opinion on jumbles and crosswords is not the same as when he was talking with Sans present.  Word puzzles _still_ seem to annoy him.

I’m pretty sure Papyrus is just making a joke here as he finishes that sentence with a laugh. 

In any case, he’s arguably not _that_ wrong; crosswords can be very repetitive. I wouldn’t call them easy, but the questions and solutions tend to get frequently reused.  At least, that’s what I’ve seen in the puzzle books I’ve bought.  I would find _entire puzzles_ where all the questions were the exact same as another except under different numbers.  Maybe newspaper crosswords are better, but I swear I’ve seen that kind of problem even in those the few times I’ve done a few of those in a row.

Papyrus loves puzzles, so perhaps he used to do a lot of crossword puzzles until he realized that every crossword uses the same material and he had memorized it all, while Sans only does crosswords occasionally so never reached that point.

Word search is essentially a game of “find the object” with words, so as far as word puzzles go, Papyrus might be somewhat justified in his claim that Junior Jumble (a word scramble) is easily the hardest.

 **Edit:** I am not saying word search is the same thing as a word scramble.  Sorry for the confusion.  I am saying that even easy versions of word scramble takes more effort than a word search.

## DOG DAYS OF HOTLAND

The scene most touted as proof that Papyrus lies to Sans is, of course, Papyrus’ lab phone calls.  Unlike with most other occasions where Papyrus is interpreted to be a “lying liar who lies,” I can understand why people interpret these calls that way.  The problem is that the rest of the game does not support this explanation and this isn’t the only possible interpretation, let alone the most plausible.  

  
  


There are two things we need to remember about Sans and Papyrus during this call. The first being that **Papyrus isn’t in the room**.  He’s nowhere _near_ the room.  The game mentions him being unable to see where the human is several times and it is suggested that Frisk talks to Papyrus and Undyne over the phone, though we hear only their side of the conversation (Frisk was probably the one to describe the building as a “strange science house).  Sans, on the other hand, was last seen two rooms prior to the lab entrance.

The second is that Sans is almost always goofing off and telling terrible puns around Papyrus, and laboratory actually is pronounced close to Labrador-y in American English, so Papyrus mistaking it for a dog pun is entirely justified and isn’t that big a stretch. Especially since he is hypervigilant when it comes to a certain annoying dog that Sans seems to get along with just fine.

Considering these details, I find it doubtful that Papyrus was pretending to be ignorant in these scenes as there is a perfectly reasonable explanation that doesn’t make Papyrus out to be a Manipulative Jerkass and Sans a Gullible Stooge.

As for the other lab-related phone call–

– the player cannot call Papyrus in the lab until after they’ve met Alphys and Mettaton as the robot’s presence creates a “strange interference.” 

With this in mind, Papyrus probably figured out that it’s that kind of lab when Frisk told him that they met Alphys there or described the place to him a little.

All in all, nothing here really suggests he is a Phony Brother.

## Ice Cream All Over The Ground

This is another phone call frequently brought up in favor of the argument that Papyrus is either stupid, a chronic liar whose _brother_ is too stupid to figure it out, or a chronic liar who is foolish enough to think his brother is too stupid to figure it out.

The reason why it is brought up in favor of Lying Garbage Papyrus is because there’s a few scenes where Papyrus openly mentions snow and ice cream in the correct way.

As with the lab phone calls, I can see why these phone calls would be used as evidence for Sneaky Charlatan Papyrus.  However, just like the lab calls, there are a couple of things in the game that make me skeptical of this claim. 

The first being that **_Papyrus and Sans live in SNOWdin_** , a town and forest full of people who make snow puns and, yes, an ice cream vendor.  Are you seriously telling me that Sans would be so stupid as to believe his brother when Papyrus “claims” not to know what snow is?  What sense does that make?

Did Sans and Papyrus never call their snow skeletons snow sculptures around each other? Did the brothers somehow magically never have a single conversation where the word snow came up despite living in an environment filled with the stuff?

Also, Sans can read the faces of people he barely knows.  It’s an important part of his character and is the main reason why people think he can remember past timelines despite the game and even Flowey (who is in the position to know for sure about it) saying “No! No, Sans cannot!” 

What’s more, it’s said to be easiest to read the faces of those you are close to, so the idea that he can’t pick up that Papyrus is lying to him (and in such an obvious way!) just by looking at his face doesn’t make much sense.

There’s also this scene: 

Despite Papyrus’ complaint about Sans not being anywhere around, we see that Sans _is_ nearby after solving the puzzle.  He’s off-screen, but still in the same room.  If the player fails the puzzle several times in a row and then talk to Sans, a lampshade is put on this.

Papyrus is described as being loud by Doggo (and I believe someone else…?) and _**Sans is technically in the same room**_ when Papyrus talks about moving the snow around.  While it is unlikely Sans would’ve overheard, if Papyrus was trying to keep his knowledge a secret from Sans, he probably would’ve been a bit more careful.

As for why Papyrus would claim that the ground is covered in ice cream despite this being obviously untrue, we need to consider how he treats Frisk in Waterfall and what’s going on with him during that time.  Namely, the fact that he knows his best friend, Undyne, wants to kill the human for their SOUL and is trying to prevent this.

Papyrus is an extremely conflicted person during the Waterfall arc.  By helping the human, he isn’t just betraying Undyne, but committing what basically amounts to _treason_ against monsterkind.  But he can’t bring himself to betray his cool new human friend either. 

This is reflected in all his interactions with the human until Undyne is defeated and/or befriended, and seems to include some of the phone calls Frisk makes to Papyrus on top of Papyrus’ occasional calls to the human.

Tellingly, Papyrus tends to treat Frisk more like a child in the phone calls during the Waterfall arc.  It’s sweet instead of obnoxious like it easily could’ve been, but it’s still very noticeable in some calls.

The phone call about the ground being covered in ice cream seems to be one of those calls.

So basically, Papyrus is trying a little too hard to be a comforting person at the time of his first ice cream related phone call. Papyrus acts far more relaxed and natural when talking to the human while in Hotland, where the second call takes place if Undyne has been befriended too.

As for why Sans pops up and says, “that’s called snow,” that’s easy. **Sans is a troll**.  Throughout the game he says things to get a reaction and this line certainly got a reaction from Papyrus.  As did him claiming to be flattered that the human wants to give Papyrus ice cream.  Though, given Sans’ brother worship tendencies, that might’ve been more sincere than Papyrus gives him credit for.

Speaking of Papyrus smelling like the moon, this brings us to the next example used to argue that Papyrus must either be brainless or a condescending liar.

## The Sun, The Moon, and The Skeleton

One of the other scenes commonly mentioned to support the idea that Papyrus lies to Sans about how much he knows is the fact that he mentions both the sun and moon at some point in the game, and then later there’s a moment on the surface where he asks Sans what the giant ball in the sky is and Sans answers, “we call that the sun.” 

There’s several glaring issues with this interpretation, starting with the fact that **the only way you could reach this conclusion is by quote-mining**.  This is the full conversation:

If Papyrus was playing dumb and pretending he’d never heard of the sun, then he really screwed up with those last two lines.  “THAT’S THE SUN!?” would indicate that, yes, he has heard of the sun.  He just didn’t know what it looked like. And finally, “I CAN’T BELIEVE I’M FINALLY MEETING THE SUN!!!” **cannot** be read as anything less than an outright admission that Papyrus has been waiting a long time to see the sun.

So how can it be that he’s knows about the sun, but doesn’t recognize it on sight? **Because it is possible to know about something without knowing what it looks like.**

Papyrus has lived underground his whole life.  He doesn’t really have any plausible reason to know what the sun and moon look like as there are only two reasons why anyone trapped in the Underground would know what the sun looks like:

  1. Being from the surface or being old enough to remember the surface.
  2. Watching anime and other shows created by humans.
  3. Reading science books that would involve the heavenly bodies.



Of the monsters, the only three people we know for sure have seen the surface are the Dreemurrs and Gerson.  It’s unclear whether or not Sans has, but it’s implied that he hasn’t as he never talks about returning to the surface, just _reaching_ it.

However, the Pacifist Ending reveals he probably watches anime as Alphys jinxes an anime related joke he was going to make.

Papyrus on the other hand, has no interest in anime and admits to having never seen any.

  
  


Sans’ interest in science supplies a second reason how he could know what the sun looks like despite having never seen the surface.  While all of Papyrus’ books are on puzzle creation and children’s books that were probably written for monsters, the books Sans keeps are implied to be all science manuals and joke books.

By the end of the day, **Papyrus doesn’t really have a reason to know what the sun and moon look like, while Sans and the other main characters do**. He’s not even the first monster to express a lack of knowledge of such things.

It is honestly unfair to claim Papyrus is naive or stupid for not knowing what the sun looks like, let alone say he must be feigning stupidity, when there really is _no reason for him to know_ and when not knowing isn’t even particularly unusual for monsters.

## Death & Spaghetti

This phone call is often brought up to argue:

  1. Papyrus doesn’t know about death
  2. Papyrus said this to avoid destroying the human’s innocence
  3. Papyrus feigns ignorance of death around Undyne and Sans.
  4. Undyne and Sans think Papyrus doesn’t know about death.
  5. Papyrus is expressing a desire to die.



All five of these arguments are shown to be completely bogus in the game itself.

 **Argument #1:** Papyrus doesn’t know about death.  
**Argument #3.1:** Papyrus feigns ignorance of death around Undyne  
**Argument #4.1:** Undyne thinks Papyrus doesn’t know about death. **  
**

**Counter-argument:**

There’s not really an alternative way to interpret this scene.  Undyne outright tells Papyrus she’s planning on taking the human’s SOUL _to his face_.  Papyrus likewise interprets this as planning on destroying them to _her_ face.  

There is no way Papyrus can be feigning ignorance of death during the aforementioned “dance with death” phone call and there is no way Undyne can think Papyrus doesn’t know what death is,

 

 **Argument #2:** Papyrus said this to avoid destroying the human’s innocence

**Counter-argument:**

Papyrus has faith that the human already knows about death and brings up the fact that _someone wants to kill them_ to their face. He’s obviously not comfortable with telling them this.  After all, both Undyne and the human are his friends, and it’s not a pleasant thing to have to tell someone anyway.  But **he still does it** and this is important to remember.

 **Argument #1 (again):** Papyrus doesn’t know about death. **  
** Argument #3.2: Papyrus feigns ignorance of death around Sans  
**Argument #4.2:** Sans thinks Papyrus doesn’t know about death.  
**Argument #5:** Papyrus is expressing a desire to die.

**Counter-argument:**

Ironically, my best counter-argument is the _King Papyrus_ ending in its entirety (and also one other scene for supplemental information).  This fandom has a serious problem with cherry-picking quotes to support their arguments, even when the full scene presents an entirely different story.

First however, I should probably discuss one scene from a neutral run where monsters are killed but Undyne is spared and given water.  And also give a brief reminder about Sans and Papyrus’ tragic backstory.

Nothing is different from the time when Frisk befriends Undyne other than the fact that monsters have died, but Undyne still falls sick after being defeated. It is thus implied that _grief_ and a sense of having failed is the source of Undyne’s illness.

Sans’ Lost SOUL sequence can be taken to support the idea that monsters are weakened by despair and grief as his dialogue is rendered all wavy and his voice blip is reduced to the default beep, suggesting he was somehow weakened after his memories of befriending Frisk were removed by Asriel despite not being physically injured.

Sans and Papyrus are strong, but they’ve already suffered a huge loss in their past, leaving them all that’s left of their family.  While Sans’ grief is more obvious, it is arguably suggested that Papyrus might not be totally okay after what happened either.

With this in mind, let’s go over the King Papyrus ending.

  


Despite having told Papyrus that they went on vacation and despite knowing what happened to them, Sans says they **mysteriously** **disappeared**.  Papyrus is implied to be nearby while Sans is talking.  **Mysteriously disappeared** clashes with the story Sans told him about them going on vacation and Sans still has no trouble stating this with Papyrus nearby.

In other words, **it is implied they both know what happened, but _can’t deal_ with it**.  They can’t admit it to themselves or the people, because they need to be strong at this time.  Not just for themselves, but for the people now under their care and guidance.  So they lie to each other and _themselves_ about it.

This bit pretty much confirms Papyrus is standing more or less right there as he is speaking, especially since Papyrus notably _doesn’t_ need to ask who Sans is talking to unlike the Exiled Queen ending.

  


The very first thing Papyrus talks about is the disappearances.  This is foremost on his mind, not the fact that he’s the new ruler of the Underground.  This is an interesting detail as it brings to focus the fact that the loss is felt by Papyrus and holds more weight for him than being king.  He’s so focused on this that he has to be _reminded_ to talk about being the new king.

Another thing to note is that, despite the fact that Sans stated that the new ruler was _elected_ , Papyrus doesn’t mention popularity once during this call. The entire phone call until the very end has a very heavy mood and is one of the saddest moments involving Papyrus.

And _this_ is why the skeletons can’t admit to each other or themselves that their friends are dead and their hope is lost. They’re basically in a position where they _have_ to pretend everything is fine and force a smile so they can hold the Underground together.

These two things Papyrus does are probably more important than you realize. While his cooking is terrible, it is probably comforting to his subjects that their new king cares for them that much.  And Papyrus is the king of pep talks, unless you’re Sans.

Also given Papyrus’ love for puzzles, the Underground is probably much more secure than when Frisk fell in as this is probably the sort of productivity Papyrus ultimately means.

This doesn’t have anything to do with Papyrus not being a liar, but Sans is still there when he says this.

Papyrus forgets the basic principle of their new human policy, but explains it more in depth once Sans jogs his memory.  This isn’t a sign of stupidity or amnesia.  It’s a sign of “WE ARE REALLY BUSY AND WE HAVE A HUNDRED THINGS TO REMEMBER BECAUSE WE RULE THE UNDERGROUND NOW.”

Also Sans, being the judge (Edit, because some readers are stupid: not _professionally_ , obviously --  _ **OBVIOUSLY**_  -- but in the sense that he played the part for the human/anomaly), was probably the one who came up that new policy, not Papyrus, so it makes sense for him to remember it better.

Basically, they’re going to be more careful when it comes to humans. Not assume they’re evil, but also not assume they’re good either.  And also throw more puzzles at them. This would probably lower death rates the next time a human falls.

Wait, who is he asking?

This is the downside to how Sans and Papyrus are trying to cope with what happened. Because they’re both trying to keep a strong face around each other and the people so the other doesn’t lose heart, they can’t talk to anyone about their troubles, not even each other.  It really is an unhealthy way of coping with tragedy.

Even if Sans did lie to Papyrus about everyone being on vacation, Papyrus surely would’ve heard the truth from the other monsters as he tried to encourage them.

Considering the phone call implies both brothers know she is dead despite pretending otherwise, imagine Papyrus calling her number time and time again despite knowing no one will ever pick up.  You’re welcome.

Sans isn’t in the room and we know Papyrus knows the human knows about death, as established earlier, so it doesn’t make sense for Papyrus to keep pretending not to know the truth unless the vacation lie is for _himself_ , not Sans or the human. 

He then wishes she would send a postcard, presumably because then the vacation lie would be true and she’d be alive.

This is why I don’t think Papyrus can be argued to be secretly suicidal. This is Papyrus at his lowest point in the game and what does he do? _Refuse to give up_.  It would be completely out of character for Papyrus to be a death-seeker or suicidal.

If the “I WANT TO MEET DEATH” line was meant to be taken seriously instead of a bout of dark comedy, it would’ve been brought up more often than just once, because the reveal that the most well-adjusted and upbeat character in the game is suicidal _should’ve been a bigger deal than this_.

Some fans bring up the fact that Papyrus “jokes” about his death in the neutral runs as further evidence that he’s secretly a death seeker due to it being a Hamlet shout-out.  Except he follows _this_ up with “AT LEAST I STILL HAVE MY HEAD.”   While darkly amusing, that is a very strange thing for someone who supposedly wants to die, knows he is dying, or is blase about his own death to say.  As such, I find it doubtful that he was joking about his death.  It _was_ a joke, but one made by Toby Fox, not Papyrus.

Overall, this is perhaps the second most heartwarming ending to a neutral ending outside of the Queen Toriel/Family endings and certainly the most uplifting. Papyrus is at his lowest point in the game and he’s lost everyone but Sans, who isn’t in the position to comfort him or _be_ comforted, yet he refuses to go down without a fight and declares that monsters will escape their Underground prison and then everyone will hang out again.

**So what _was_ the deal with that phone call?**

 

First, there’s no law in the game stating that Death _can’t_ be used as a monster name.  The game has no shortage of weird monster names.  Secondly, Papyrus _can_ be a bit literal minded at times.  This is one of those times.  Thirdly, haven’t people in this fandom ever heard of dark humor?

This call takes place after the human has hung out with Undyne.  Not just after their battle. While it is sometimes theorized that Papyrus was listening in on the entire hang out, like a creeper, there is no evidence of this in the actual game.  So maybe for all Papyrus knows Undyne and Frisk _did_ dance with a hot monster girl who is way cooler than Mettaton and happens to be called Death during their hang out.

Papyrus wants to be popular and looks up to popular people, and Undyne just claimed this Death person is a bigger deal than his favorite celebrity, Mettaton.  Of course Papyrus would express a desire to meet them. This infamous phone call also seems to more imply that Papyrus is bisexual than suicidal as he expresses a desire to meet a girl after being told she’s “super hot.”

“I WANT TO MEET DEATH” is thus perhaps the most lighthearted and inoffensive suicide joke you could make outside of “To get to the Other Side.”

## Conclusion?

The evidence provided by the game ultimately suggests rather consistently that

  * Papyrus is **NOT** stupid
  * Sans and Undyne **DO NOT** think Papyrus is stupid
  * Papyrus is **NOT** ignorant about death
  * Sans and Undyne **DO NOT** think Papyrus is ignorant about death.
  * Papyrus **DOES NOT** pretend to be a naive fool around Sans and Undyne.
  * Papyrus is **NOT** suicidal.



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